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	<title>Comments on: A Pro-Choice Article NOT On the Kook Fringe</title>
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	<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1673</link>
	<description>two kingdoms, hundreds of thousands of miles</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 04:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1673#comment-14955</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Talulah, thank you for your comments.

I want to address your third paragraph in particular. I actually did not use religion to argue the issue, though I did provide a comment how rabbis handled the ethics.

As medicine is able to save babies born earlier and earlier, it makes less sense to deny the right to exist to a child depending on which side of the uterine wall they are on. There are children in Newborn Intensive Care Units young enough to be terminated if their parents wished. Right now, &lt;em&gt;Roe v. Wade&lt;/em&gt; forces state governments to sanction those activities.

We have been bludgeoned over the head with the "cannot legislate morality" argument so much that we do not recognize that the law does proscribe good and bad behavior. It sets bounds, which if a person crosses, it punishes. We prosecute perjury, theft, murder, polygamy, and indecency all the time. And this is a good thing.

The "cannot legislate morality" argument comes from a desire not to mix religious law and secular law.  I appreciate the intent. We do not want an Islam or a Mosaic law. But I think this sentiment is used to deny us the body of evidence that God tells us about ourselves. It really is OK to use information that scripture tells us about ourselves. We don't put our knowledge away for six days just to break it out for church. Using that knowledge does not mean we legislate the Ten Commandments. That is a knee-jerk accusation.

God in fact does disclose his will with Holy Scripture, and he desires that everybody knows about it. He disclosed his will to purchase our lives from eternal wrath, not with our good life and good deeds, but with the death and resurrection of His only Son. Christians have allowed themselves to be shamed into pluralization. Our participation in the world does not require the assimilation of its values.

But "God said so" is not why we argue for the lifting of &lt;em&gt;Roe v. Wade&lt;/em&gt; and the restoration of the states' right to prohibit abortion as tightly as they see fit. We argue for it because over 48.5 million abortions have been conducted since that 5-4 Supreme Court decision. It doesn't take a Christian to figure out that isn't a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talulah, thank you for your comments.</p>
<p>I want to address your third paragraph in particular. I actually did not use religion to argue the issue, though I did provide a comment how rabbis handled the ethics.</p>
<p>As medicine is able to save babies born earlier and earlier, it makes less sense to deny the right to exist to a child depending on which side of the uterine wall they are on. There are children in Newborn Intensive Care Units young enough to be terminated if their parents wished. Right now, <em>Roe v. Wade</em> forces state governments to sanction those activities.</p>
<p>We have been bludgeoned over the head with the &#8220;cannot legislate morality&#8221; argument so much that we do not recognize that the law does proscribe good and bad behavior. It sets bounds, which if a person crosses, it punishes. We prosecute perjury, theft, murder, polygamy, and indecency all the time. And this is a good thing.</p>
<p>The &#8220;cannot legislate morality&#8221; argument comes from a desire not to mix religious law and secular law.  I appreciate the intent. We do not want an Islam or a Mosaic law. But I think this sentiment is used to deny us the body of evidence that God tells us about ourselves. It really is OK to use information that scripture tells us about ourselves. We don&#8217;t put our knowledge away for six days just to break it out for church. Using that knowledge does not mean we legislate the Ten Commandments. That is a knee-jerk accusation.</p>
<p>God in fact does disclose his will with Holy Scripture, and he desires that everybody knows about it. He disclosed his will to purchase our lives from eternal wrath, not with our good life and good deeds, but with the death and resurrection of His only Son. Christians have allowed themselves to be shamed into pluralization. Our participation in the world does not require the assimilation of its values.</p>
<p>But &#8220;God said so&#8221; is not why we argue for the lifting of <em>Roe v. Wade</em> and the restoration of the states&#8217; right to prohibit abortion as tightly as they see fit. We argue for it because over 48.5 million abortions have been conducted since that 5-4 Supreme Court decision. It doesn&#8217;t take a Christian to figure out that isn&#8217;t a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Talulah Kumquat</title>
		<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1673#comment-14954</link>
		<dc:creator>Talulah Kumquat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://necessaryroughness.org/?p=1673#comment-14954</guid>
		<description>If people were truly 'pro-abortion', they'd do something similar to 'pro-life' groups: stand outside obstetricians' offices, try to block pregnant women from getting the healthcare they need, and yell at patients to abort their babies.  I have yet to see that.

Also, unless 'screw abstinence' parties involve orgies without the use of contraception, I have a hard time believing they are 'engaging in behavior that leads to more abortions'.  One could argue that abstinence only sex ed does lead to behavior that leads to more abortions - every study has indicated the program does nothing to stop teens from having sex, but it does encourage the risky behavior of not using contraception.

While I reserve judgment on the Shvarts girl, I truly believe that we are on a slippery slope when we award civil rights to fetuses.  God gave us free will, but many times I think we, as Christians, try to thwart free will by legislating morality.  I believe that God rewards us in the afterlife for living a good life and helping others, not trying to dictate to others what we believe to be His will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If people were truly &#8216;pro-abortion&#8217;, they&#8217;d do something similar to &#8216;pro-life&#8217; groups: stand outside obstetricians&#8217; offices, try to block pregnant women from getting the healthcare they need, and yell at patients to abort their babies.  I have yet to see that.</p>
<p>Also, unless &#8217;screw abstinence&#8217; parties involve orgies without the use of contraception, I have a hard time believing they are &#8216;engaging in behavior that leads to more abortions&#8217;.  One could argue that abstinence only sex ed does lead to behavior that leads to more abortions - every study has indicated the program does nothing to stop teens from having sex, but it does encourage the risky behavior of not using contraception.</p>
<p>While I reserve judgment on the Shvarts girl, I truly believe that we are on a slippery slope when we award civil rights to fetuses.  God gave us free will, but many times I think we, as Christians, try to thwart free will by legislating morality.  I believe that God rewards us in the afterlife for living a good life and helping others, not trying to dictate to others what we believe to be His will.</p>
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