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	<title>Comments on: Reaction to Romney&#8217;s Speech</title>
	<atom:link href="http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381</link>
	<description>two kingdoms, hundreds of thousands of miles</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13803</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13803</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Romney’s belief that Jesus is THE son of God rather than A son of God rattled a few Mormon nerves,&lt;/i&gt;

I don't think so.  As noted by RPW, Jesus is 'A' son of their god and also 'THE' primary son of their god.  I have similar experiences as RPW with regard to living in Utah, and I can corroborate his statements.

&#62;&#62;&#62;

With regard to Romney's as president, the Irony is he is probably the most truly pro-Religious candidate of all of them (both GOP and Dem).  Huckabee is ordained, but his voting record is quite politically correct on a number of issues.  The other GOP candidates are mostly secular-neutral, while the Dem candidates are mostly all secular-leftwing socialists (or in Hillary's case, a Marxist).

What I say is not intended to make Romney look good, but to reflect on what the other candidates represent in comparison.  And it ain't a pretty picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Romney’s belief that Jesus is THE son of God rather than A son of God rattled a few Mormon nerves,</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think so.  As noted by RPW, Jesus is &#8216;A&#8217; son of their god and also &#8216;THE&#8217; primary son of their god.  I have similar experiences as RPW with regard to living in Utah, and I can corroborate his statements.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;</p>
<p>With regard to Romney&#8217;s as president, the Irony is he is probably the most truly pro-Religious candidate of all of them (both GOP and Dem).  Huckabee is ordained, but his voting record is quite politically correct on a number of issues.  The other GOP candidates are mostly secular-neutral, while the Dem candidates are mostly all secular-leftwing socialists (or in Hillary&#8217;s case, a Marxist).</p>
<p>What I say is not intended to make Romney look good, but to reflect on what the other candidates represent in comparison.  And it ain&#8217;t a pretty picture.</p>
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		<title>By: RPW</title>
		<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13775</link>
		<dc:creator>RPW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 04:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13775</guid>
		<description>Dan,

I went to college in a small town in Utah, and I don't think Mormons have a problem with saying that Jesus is the only "begotten" son of God.  Basically they would say that Jesus is our oldest spirit brother who concocted the plan for our salvation that would give the Father the most glory, as opposed to Lucifer's plan...but Christ is the ONLY one that God was responsible for not only as a spirit child, but for his manifestation in the flesh, "overshadowing Mary" being considered a euphemism for having sex with her (or as one told me...it is &lt;i&gt;possible&lt;/i&gt; to get pregnant by being in the vicinity and not having full penetration.

Honestly, there is nothing in the Apostles Creed or the Nicene Creed that they couldn't redefine into their theology.

My biggest issue with Romney's Mormonism is that the LDS church president had a prophecy over 20 years ago ordering the faithful to keep a 3 year food store (and if you Google this, you can find lots of discussion about faithfully keeping this and practical advice for doing so).  The prophecy stated that eventually our government was going to collapse and because only the LDS Church was prepared for it, our gov't will turn to them to take over.  This may not influence Romney's desire for the presidency at all seeing how really,  LDS theology and practice can look very different and far less stringent outside of Utah (Utah Mormons often consider non-Utah Mormons to be outsiders, and I've known many who come from outside the state who can't believe how serious it is there and how much it permeates daily life).  However, it does show that the LDS Church does have their eyes on it, and I am sure they would not hesitate to exercise whatever power possible over a Mormon that holds that office.


In my lifetime, Mormons would have bristled at being called Christian.  Over the last 30 years, they have moved far closer to it, even embacing the symbol of the fish (ichthus).  When I was in Utah, they still were very opposed to the symbol of the cross or the crucifix.  They believe that the blood Jesus shed at Gethsemene was where He atoned for our sins, not on the cross.  I frequently heard "if a robber shot your brother with a gun, would you go around with a gun pendant around your neck?"  My pastor did predict that in their desire to appear Christian, they would eventually embrace the symbol of the cross.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>I went to college in a small town in Utah, and I don&#8217;t think Mormons have a problem with saying that Jesus is the only &#8220;begotten&#8221; son of God.  Basically they would say that Jesus is our oldest spirit brother who concocted the plan for our salvation that would give the Father the most glory, as opposed to Lucifer&#8217;s plan&#8230;but Christ is the ONLY one that God was responsible for not only as a spirit child, but for his manifestation in the flesh, &#8220;overshadowing Mary&#8221; being considered a euphemism for having sex with her (or as one told me&#8230;it is <i>possible</i> to get pregnant by being in the vicinity and not having full penetration.</p>
<p>Honestly, there is nothing in the Apostles Creed or the Nicene Creed that they couldn&#8217;t redefine into their theology.</p>
<p>My biggest issue with Romney&#8217;s Mormonism is that the LDS church president had a prophecy over 20 years ago ordering the faithful to keep a 3 year food store (and if you Google this, you can find lots of discussion about faithfully keeping this and practical advice for doing so).  The prophecy stated that eventually our government was going to collapse and because only the LDS Church was prepared for it, our gov&#8217;t will turn to them to take over.  This may not influence Romney&#8217;s desire for the presidency at all seeing how really,  LDS theology and practice can look very different and far less stringent outside of Utah (Utah Mormons often consider non-Utah Mormons to be outsiders, and I&#8217;ve known many who come from outside the state who can&#8217;t believe how serious it is there and how much it permeates daily life).  However, it does show that the LDS Church does have their eyes on it, and I am sure they would not hesitate to exercise whatever power possible over a Mormon that holds that office.</p>
<p>In my lifetime, Mormons would have bristled at being called Christian.  Over the last 30 years, they have moved far closer to it, even embacing the symbol of the fish (ichthus).  When I was in Utah, they still were very opposed to the symbol of the cross or the crucifix.  They believe that the blood Jesus shed at Gethsemene was where He atoned for our sins, not on the cross.  I frequently heard &#8220;if a robber shot your brother with a gun, would you go around with a gun pendant around your neck?&#8221;  My pastor did predict that in their desire to appear Christian, they would eventually embrace the symbol of the cross.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13759</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 02:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13759</guid>
		<description>Gee, I "thought" I read your post carefully. Just goes to show. Sorry for the redundancy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, I &#8220;thought&#8221; I read your post carefully. Just goes to show. Sorry for the redundancy.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13757</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 21:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13757</guid>
		<description>Jim, I had already linked you on the post!  Thanks for the additional summary. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, I had already linked you on the post!  Thanks for the additional summary. <img src='http://necessaryroughness.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13755</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13755</guid>
		<description>If you don't mind me posting the link, I interact a bit &lt;a href="http://lutheranguest.blogspot.com/2007/12/observations-on-romneys-college-station.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; with some of the policy implications of parts of the Book of Mormon. 

Toward the end of the post, I also discuss why Romney's claim that inquiring into the political implications of Mormon beliefs violates the "religious test" provision of the U.S. Constitution is just downright ignorant, if not disingenuous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you don&#8217;t mind me posting the link, I interact a bit <a href="http://lutheranguest.blogspot.com/2007/12/observations-on-romneys-college-station.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> with some of the policy implications of parts of the Book of Mormon. </p>
<p>Toward the end of the post, I also discuss why Romney&#8217;s claim that inquiring into the political implications of Mormon beliefs violates the &#8220;religious test&#8221; provision of the U.S. Constitution is just downright ignorant, if not disingenuous.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Baker</title>
		<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13750</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13750</guid>
		<description>I really liked that ABC hit piece last night on Christian "bigots" who hate the US Constitution when they question Mr. Romney about Mormonism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really liked that ABC hit piece last night on Christian &#8220;bigots&#8221; who hate the US Constitution when they question Mr. Romney about Mormonism.</p>
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		<title>By: Barb the Evil Genius</title>
		<link>http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13749</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb the Evil Genius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://necessaryroughness.org/archives/1381#comment-13749</guid>
		<description>Wasn't it George Washington who said there is no morality apart from religion?

Mormons are very hard to pin down on what they believe. It's disturbing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t it George Washington who said there is no morality apart from religion?</p>
<p>Mormons are very hard to pin down on what they believe. It&#8217;s disturbing.</p>
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