Comments on: Does ‘Relationship’ Get in the Way? http://necessaryroughness.org/2009/10/does-relationship-get-in-the-way/ two kingdoms, hundreds of thousands of miles Fri, 03 Feb 2012 22:19:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: IggyAntiochus http://necessaryroughness.org/2009/10/does-relationship-get-in-the-way/comment-page-1/#comment-17297 IggyAntiochus Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:53:37 +0000 http://necessaryroughness.org/?p=4284#comment-17297 Excellent post. Relationships are soooo up-and-down, and literally change with a person's mood. Yet God remains constant! His love, His forgiveness, His mercy, His baptismal promises, His body and blood, His absolution are always there regardless of our attitude, our mood, our doubt, our pride, and how "close" we feel to Him. Moreover it is Christ who establishes a relationship with us. That relationship does not change, does not have ups-and-downs, and is always as close as The Word and Sacraments. So, if one does end up talking about their relationship with Jesus (once in a great while this may be appropriate) there are still solid, concrete, even Gospel-centered ways to define it. Afterall, the Law only tells us we need Jesus. The Gospel gives Jesus. Excellent post. Relationships are soooo up-and-down, and literally change with a person’s mood. Yet God remains constant! His love, His forgiveness, His mercy, His baptismal promises, His body and blood, His absolution are always there regardless of our attitude, our mood, our doubt, our pride, and how “close” we feel to Him.

Moreover it is Christ who establishes a relationship with us. That relationship does not change, does not have ups-and-downs, and is always as close as The Word and Sacraments.

So, if one does end up talking about their relationship with Jesus (once in a great while this may be appropriate) there are still solid, concrete, even Gospel-centered ways to define it.

Afterall, the Law only tells us we need Jesus. The Gospel gives Jesus.

]]> By: Rick Ritchie http://necessaryroughness.org/2009/10/does-relationship-get-in-the-way/comment-page-1/#comment-17293 Rick Ritchie Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:43:25 +0000 http://necessaryroughness.org/?p=4284#comment-17293 When "relationship" is the main category used, things get screwy. The idea that when we talk to God, He talks back often comes along with this idea. Now there's a qualified sense in which I think this can be expected. If we are spending time in the Scriptures, I think there is a renewal of the mind such that the voice of God is at work, as His word is at work in our minds. But it is not there as the only voice. Our minds are never in this life only renewed minds. The "relationship" talk often leads people into a discovery of a kind of inner dialog that surprises them. But they aren't taught to be critical of what results. I even had one friend, when I suggested he had to be a little more critical of where certain ideas came from, say he didn't question the Holy Spirit. Quite circular. Yes, assuming this was the Holy Spirit, we should not question. But we should not make this assumption for that very reason. We must test first. And unless we end up back at one Bible passage that can only be interpreted or applied in one way, there will always be a question. When “relationship” is the main category used, things get screwy. The idea that when we talk to God, He talks back often comes along with this idea. Now there’s a qualified sense in which I think this can be expected. If we are spending time in the Scriptures, I think there is a renewal of the mind such that the voice of God is at work, as His word is at work in our minds. But it is not there as the only voice. Our minds are never in this life only renewed minds. The “relationship” talk often leads people into a discovery of a kind of inner dialog that surprises them. But they aren’t taught to be critical of what results. I even had one friend, when I suggested he had to be a little more critical of where certain ideas came from, say he didn’t question the Holy Spirit. Quite circular. Yes, assuming this was the Holy Spirit, we should not question. But we should not make this assumption for that very reason. We must test first. And unless we end up back at one Bible passage that can only be interpreted or applied in one way, there will always be a question.

]]> By: Carolina Rutz http://necessaryroughness.org/2009/10/does-relationship-get-in-the-way/comment-page-1/#comment-17288 Carolina Rutz Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:16:00 +0000 http://necessaryroughness.org/?p=4284#comment-17288 I have heard this "relationship" talk one too many times, and it implied that YOU must make that relationship work by doing x, y, and z so God won't let you down. It's especially most dangerous when introduced in teen bible studies. That's when this relationship talk morphs into the ridiculous: <a href="http://www.everythingisterrible.com/2009/10/you-and-god-make-cute-couple.html" rel="nofollow">From the Everything is Terrible site, a clip about dating God. (ACHTUNG! NSFW for commenters' snark and blasphemy)</a> I have heard this “relationship” talk one too many times, and it implied that YOU must make that relationship work by doing x, y, and z so God won’t let you down. It’s especially most dangerous when introduced in teen bible studies. That’s when this relationship talk morphs into the ridiculous:

From the Everything is Terrible site, a clip about dating God. (ACHTUNG! NSFW for commenters’ snark and blasphemy)

]]> By: Jen http://necessaryroughness.org/2009/10/does-relationship-get-in-the-way/comment-page-1/#comment-17287 Jen Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:17:51 +0000 http://necessaryroughness.org/?p=4284#comment-17287 Ah, how sinful we are that we can turn "relationship" into law. I usually keep that language for a different sort of conversation and explanation. I haven't used it in initial conversations about faith and conversion, but I've used it to explain why I don't behave in certain ways to non-Christians who see what I do and say and believe that I am trying to earn my way into heaven. It's not about making God happy or unhappy so that He does what I want him to, I want to do what He says because of my relationship with him. That relationship can only come through His grace and His spirit, it is nothing I initiate on my own. Ah, how sinful we are that we can turn “relationship” into law. I usually keep that language for a different sort of conversation and explanation. I haven’t used it in initial conversations about faith and conversion, but I’ve used it to explain why I don’t behave in certain ways to non-Christians who see what I do and say and believe that I am trying to earn my way into heaven. It’s not about making God happy or unhappy so that He does what I want him to, I want to do what He says because of my relationship with him. That relationship can only come through His grace and His spirit, it is nothing I initiate on my own.

]]> By: T. Emmett Bramwell http://necessaryroughness.org/2009/10/does-relationship-get-in-the-way/comment-page-1/#comment-17286 T. Emmett Bramwell Sun, 11 Oct 2009 03:30:40 +0000 http://necessaryroughness.org/?p=4284#comment-17286 Exactly! "What if a person has had bad relationships?" Its funny that you put this out today. I am drawing another cartoon that is dealing with this same topic. It is a dig at The Shack and Young's portrayal of a god that changes according to our bad experiences. Exactly!

“What if a person has had bad relationships?”

Its funny that you put this out today. I am drawing another cartoon that is dealing with this same topic. It is a dig at The Shack and Young’s portrayal of a god that changes according to our bad experiences.

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